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Arts & Entertainment: Shira Lazar Hosts Avery Akkineni (Vayner NFT), Tammy Yang (Numbers), Mark Radcliffe (DLA Piper), Boy01 (House Of Ye), Rebecca Jonah & Ilona Stepanyants (Aria), Nathan Ginnever (Seker Factory), Wahid Chammas (Faith Tribe)
We did it! Jeff, Josh and Eathan, along with the huge of Rockstar team members they assembled, just pulled off a stellar inaugural NFT LA event featuring the crème de la crème of Web 3, and leveraging the vibrant entertainment scene of Los Angeles. This episode is one of a series featuring content from the NFT LA event, March 28-31, 2022. Today’s session is one of a handful featuring impromptu convention hall interviews that our good friend Shira Lazar put together. We’ve organized them into tracks, similar to the content tracks we organized for NFT LA talks and panels. Today’s track: Sports, Entertainment, Music, Art and Fashion. Enjoy!
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Watch the episode here
Listen to the podcast here
NFT LA Collection – Arts & Entertainment: Shira Lazar Hosts Avery Akkineni (Vayner NFT), Tammy Yang (Numbers), Mark Radcliffe (DLA Piper), Boy01 (House Of Ye), Rebecca Jonah & Ilona Stepanyants (Aria), Nathan Ginnever (Seker Factory), Wahid Chammas (Faith Tribe)
We did it. Along with my incredible co-host Jeff and Josh, as well as the huge crew of rockstar team members we assembled, we pulled off a stellar inaugural NFT LA event featuring the crème de la crème of Web 3.0 and leveraging the vibrant entertainment scene of Los Angeles. This episode is one of a series featuring content from the NFT LA event, which happened from March 28th to 31st, 2022. This session is one of a handful featuring impromptu convention hall interviews that a good friend, Shira Lazar put together. We’ve organized them into tracks, similar to the content tracks we organized for NFT LA talks and panels. This track is sports, entertainment, music, art and fashion. Enjoy.
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I’m with Avery Akkineni from VaynerNFT. It’s so great to see you here in the flesh because we do follow each other on Twitter.
I’m so excited to meet you.
Tell us what VaynerNFT is up to. We all know VaynerMedia, but tell us more.
We created VaynerNFT almost a year ago with the intention of helping institutions navigate the world of Web 3.0. VaynerMedia has existed for almost twelve years and we’ve been helping institutions, primarily brands, navigate all things social media and all things marketing for the now. A few years ago, Gary became obsessed with NFTs and Web 3.0. He told us this is all of the future. We then decided to create a consultancy within the walls of Vayner, specifically to help IP owners navigate this new space and launch some amazing projects.
What were you doing before this?
Before VaynerNFT, I was running our VaynerMedia business in the Asia Pacific. I started our offices in Singapore, Bangkok, Tokyo and Sydney. I then decided to move back starting VaynerNFT in Miami. It’s been a journey. Before Vayner, I was at Google for seven years. It’s a little bit of a different pace and it’s been an experience. You know Gary so it’s been fun.
You’re a rockstar. It’s so great to interview a powerful woman who’s killing it in space because as we know, there are not a lot of us here. What has it been like representing women? We’re in so many of these Twitter spaces and I wouldn’t say it’s a big trend because it is how we identify. What are your thoughts?
It’s an interesting time because sometimes perception is reality. I understand the stats of men being the predominant demographic of crypto buyers and NFT buyers. Many of the amazing people and builders I know in this space are women. It takes a little bit of consciousness for me to realize that it isn’t the full reality. There’s a lot of energy in empowering women in the world of Web 3.0. There are projects that are being created specifically to help onboard these communities into the world of Web 3.0 and get them set up with their wallets and with crypto.
Whether they’re thinking about that as an investment, as a community effort, as a new way or a new medium to spend their time as a hobby. You and I are part of a couple of those same groups and it’s been nice to see those pop. Here at NFT LA, they’ve done an incredible job curating the list of speakers to be intentionally gender-balanced but let’s say the bathroom line is much shorter for the women’s bathrooms.
Let’s go back to VaynerNFT and what you all are up to. I know the mission, but I’m sure you’re working on some cool projects.
We’re working on a bunch of cool projects. There’s a mix of owned projects in the Vayner ecosystem and enterprise programs. We did a cool program with Stella Artois in Art Blocks. It was sold out in two hours and all proceeds in perpetuity benefit Water.org on World Water Day. That was one that we were proud of. It’s a cool use of generative art technology and a force for good. We were thrilled with that. We have a couple of other very exciting programs coming. A combination of free NFTs, community-oriented NFTs, and brand-building NFTs. One thing that I’m looking forward to is launching some programs as an NFT first, which then move into the more mainstream world.
It’s consumer-facing after.
We’ve been doing a lot of traditional moving into the world of Web 3.0. It will be fun to start Web 3.0, moving into the world of traditional, as we’re seeing an increase in this intersection happening.
That makes sense because if you’re a brand that is popular and has a community, you should be able to navigate all these other spaces from fashion to consumer goods.
We’re also starting to see some of the major NFT programs moving into the mainstream through things like developing shows, more popular merchandise, and even billboards all over Miami, popularizing some of these programs, events and experiences like with South By. I’m excited for the future of Web 3.0, moving into the mainstream through some of these blue-chip brands.
It’s going to be huge and it already is happening. What advice do you give companies who are intrigued by this space? They might not fully get it yet how they should play in it.
The advice I give everyone is, “Do your homework.” For institutions, a lot of times we’ll give these talks and educational sessions to hundreds of executives from Fortune 500 land. They say they understand NFTs. They get what’s going on. We ask, “How many of you have a wallet or have crypto?” Two hands go up. Immersing yourself in that experience directly helps unlock the understanding of what this community and what this world is all about.
First is always do your own homework and get in that mindset yourself by getting your first ever NFT. I’ve probably personally onboarded an absurd number of CEOs and CMOs because until they get it themselves, they don’t get it. Second, start by thinking about what you can do to add value to the ecosystem, whether this is a new way for your fans in the community to engage with you. Whether it’s an airdrop, a piece of art, collaboration can be smart, but thinking of how you can add value to the ecosystem. Those two things are prerequisites before you get anywhere near launching your own project.
Where do you see the space going in the future? So much has happened already in a short period of time. We were in a bit of a bull market, bear market, and then everything was selling out. People were feeling there was a plateau. What is your take?
My take is that it’s the absurdly early days of this entire ecosystem. We hear all the time, “Is it a bear market? Things are down.” If you look at it, it’s all on a relative basis. If you look back years ago, we’ve come so far already. We’re still in the incredibly early days of what this world is going to be like. We’re in the very early days of consumer adoption. We’re a little bit in our own bubble here because we’re surrounded by everyone who’s all Web 3.0 all the time. If you look at the total number of active wallets, it’s small.
My predictions for the future are NFTs will become ubiquitous and used as a way to convey self-expression, convey ownership, invest in things that you like, collect things that you like, and build the digital persona that can go with you across all of the different experiences you have digitally. I don’t know if the term NFTs will stick around. It might go in the direction of the worldwide web, surf the net or some of the things that we used to say that are long forgotten. This concept of digital ownership is going to be massive and it’s going to fundamentally change how people interact digitally.
Avery, I so appreciate you. It is great to meet you in person. Thank you so much for sharing all these insights.
Thank you so much, Shira.
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I’m with Tammy Yang from Numbers Protocol. Thanks for being here with us.
It’s nice to see you here.
I hope you’re enjoying your time. Have you been to an NFT conference before?
No, this is my first NFT conference.
Tell us more about Numbers Protocol.
Numbers Protocol created a decentralized photo network. We make photos including images and videos, traceable and verifiable. By doing so, we were able to challenge some of the important problems such as the misinformation on the internet or the fake NFT problems.
When I saw this site and I hear about this idea, I think about maybe getting what WireImage or Associated Press on their photo service side has done wrong or how they could decentralize it. Do you feel you’re trying to solve some of those problems while also taking the photos from the crowdsource?
The market we are adjusting is bigger than the stock photos. We believe that because the photo is something that everyone is very familiar with, we take a lot of photos from your mobile home every day. We think that in the Western board, the difference is you own your own photos. You get to decide how to use those photos.
Do you want to submit it to the news media? Do you want to print it out? Do you want to make it as an NFT? Do you want to list it and license it to someone else? In Web 3.0, we got the opportunity to use the technology to help everybody become their carrier and then you got to decide how do want to use your photos in the decentralized area.
What are the options if I’m a photographer and I use Numbers Protocol?
There are several ways they can work with us. The first one is we have an app available on Android and iOS that they can download. All the photos taken from that app are native photos so it has consent. The creator, creation location and all this information are online so that is traceable and verifiable. They can use the app and then very easily create the photos and then bring the NFT for the app. That’s one way.
Some of the photographers also work with us on the project base because they have more creations. Some photo agencies also work with us to help them to turn their batch photos. Imagine that in the Web 2.0 world. There are so many photos online, but it’s very challenging to tell where these photos were taken and how these photos are taken.
That causes misinformation or fake NFTs problems. Now, they all want to move to the Web 3.0 world. They want to create their timestamp, and they want to have the proper creator names binding to that creation. That’s how they can work with us and we will help them to upload the photos in the batch way. It’s more efficient than taking photos from the app.
Do you think 2022 is the year of the NFT photograph? Do you think it’s going to become more popular?
I do think so. 2021 is the year of NFT for sure. I’m totally into NFT. I understand why there is a lot about NFTs that people don’t understand. I can understand what that means. A lot of people in 2021 see those NFTs and they were like, “Why am I going to spend $1 million to buy this?” Although NFT is very popular in 2021, there’s still a gap between the mainstream people and the NFT.
I believe that 2022 is going to be the year where the gap is going to be much smaller. For example, we’re going to have a collaboration with a wonderful photographer called Kate Peters. She is an amazing photographer and her work is exhibited in the London National Portrait Museum. Photographers like this traditionally showcase their work in the museum and in the gallery. They’re all looking for a new way to engage with Web 3.0 with their own work. I believe that 2022 is going to be a very different year for NFT.
What advice would you give those photographers who want to get into this space?
The first thing will be, “What do you want to give to people who bought your NFT?” For example, the very common question we are asked is, “What rights do photographers still retain after they sold their NFT?” I will interpret that question in a different direction. What right do people get after buying your NFT? NFT is supposed to be transparent, open and is a permanent connection between the buyer and the creator. That’s very interesting because traditionally if I bought some creations after I pay, the connection is over. Now because of NFT, you are allowed to create a permanent connection. What kind of connection do you want to build with a buyer? What do you want to give to them? That message will be very important.
Also, not to be maybe overwhelmed by all the PFP generative art out there. There’s still room for one of the ones and the photographers and those types of artists.
Yes, I believe that.
You can sell, buy and license all that photography on Numbers Protocol. Go check it out. It’s great stuff.
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I’m with Mark Radcliffe from DLA Piper. We’re going to be talking about law and legal issues around this space. Let’s get into your background in this space because you’ve been working in crypto for a while.
Crypto is fascinating. I’ve been working in Silicon Valley for over 30 years. I love new technologies. I was very involved in open source back in the early 2000s and continue to be involved. Crypto is one of the most exciting developments that I’ve seen in those years. NFTs are even more interesting to me than tokens. I’ve done a lot of token-oriented matters from 2017, but NFTs’ combination of building community, building art and getting money directly to artists is fascinating to me and very exciting.
I’m sure you have a lot of work to do. A lot of people need lawyers and people that understand smart contracts. What are you looking at in this space?
The most interesting thing for me and hopefully for the people in the space is understanding how IP rights can leverage to add value. The biggest example of that is Bored Ape Yacht Club which granted a license with very broad commercial rights early on versus CryptoPunks, where they had a license and were never quite sure what the scope of it was. When Bored Ape Yacht Club bought CryptoPunks and granted them a commercial license, you’re going to see an explosion in the CryptoPunks community. That’s very good for the community. Certainly, the venture capitalists are giving a vote of confidence. They funded Bored Ape Yacht Club at a $4 billion valuation.
What advice do you give founders when you’re working with them on the legal side?
The critical thing is to think through what you’re trying to achieve. There are a lot of paths and we’re still experimenting. For those of you who are in the industry, you’ve probably heard of something called CC0, Creative Commons Zero. It is a license where you devote the copyright to the public domain. I think that’s an approach that will fail over time, except for very few projects. You need to think about, “What are your goals? How are you going to build the community?” The key to NFT success is building the community around your project.
What mistakes do you feel people make? What should people be looking out for?
The first mistake they make is thinking that if something is on the internet, somehow it’s available for their use. You had a group that try to use Magic: The Gathering and put it into an NFT. They got the politest demand letter from the Magic: The Gathering lawyer you can imagine. They exploded on Twitter. They were somehow disrespected. The people taking somebody else’s intellectual property are being disrespectful.
The other part of it is for the long-term. You can obviously make a lot of money if you drop 10,000 PFPs. What Yuga Labs through Bored Ape Yacht Club has shown is if you think it through and you can have a strategy that’s going to make you a truly next-generation entertainment company. There are going to be companies coming out of the NFT space that is going to be similar to Disney. One thing I’ve observed in my 30 years in Silicon Valley is the existing players, large companies that can be very successful in their niche are frequently not nimble enough to make it to the next business model.
Probably the best example that everybody knows about is Blockbuster and Netflix. It’s important to recognize that this new technology offers an opportunity to build impressive new companies. It also opens up the internet in many ways, back to the original Web 1.0 opportunity of decentralization, participation and owning your own data.
What will we be talking about in 2023?
In 2023, we’ll be talking about how Yuga Labs had yet another success. I’m hoping that there are going to be 3 or 4 other projects that will have followed their model, not necessarily exactly, but in different ways and be equally successful. We’re going to see the NFT mega players like Yuga Labs move into traditional entertainment. They’ve already announced an animated film. They’ve got a metaverse project.
We’re going to see a blending of traditional entertainment with the NFT space. You’re going to see the traditional entertainment players getting into NFTs, but an example of how not to do it is the proposed Dune launch of NFTs that is going to be on Ethereum which is still proof of work. It’s not a great environmental story yet Dune itself is all about the environment. That was a misstep on the part of Legendary Entertainment.
Arts & Entertainment: Most people think that if something is on the internet, somehow it’s available for their use. Taking someone else’s intellectual property is a form of disrespect.
Were you also a part of the TikTok NFT drop?
That’s correct. We worked with TikTok on the NFT drop. That was interesting, and complex because we’re working with third-party artists and we are introducing them to NFTs, how NFTs work and at the same time, trying to find the right platform. It was very interesting.
That’s going to be a huge challenge because traditional companies are used to owning it. They’re like, “We gave you the money upfront.” They think that you could still give money upfront and still get a percentage.
Frankly, this is a lot like open source which started out in the early 2000s. I see the NFT community is very similar to open source, in the sense that it’s very collaborative. People are sharing information. I hope that ethic continues because that’s what made open source so powerful. Now, you have an open-source project, the Linux operating system, which is dominant in its space. All the proprietary products have gone away.
There’s the possibility of similar successes for NFT companies in the entertainment field and other fields. I represent somebody who’s using NFTs to track patents and put together patent pools. There are a lot of use cases beyond PFPs and some of the collectibles we’re seeing. You’re already seeing sports teams using NFTs to build their fan base and interact with the fan base in ways that weren’t possible before.
The main advice is to make sure you have the right team and lawyers from the beginning. Make sure your contract is secure and makes sense to protect yourself as it grows and the community grows.
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I feel it. There’s a lot going on.
How did Books of Ye get started?
That’s a thesis right there.
It was a concept.
It could be someone’s thesis paper.
You’ve dedicated your life to this.
Did he say anything at that time?
Is it still Ye?
He can’t.
Is it because it’s a parody?
They want people to reach out to them probably.
Congrats.
Also, joining a team.
Boy01, thank you so much. I appreciate it.
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I’m with Rebecca and Ilona from ARIA Exchange.
I’m so happy to be here.
It’s great to have you. How is NFT LA for you?
We’re excited to represent.
Tell us about ARIA Exchange.
I hope so.
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It’s been all right.
Tell us more about your DAO.
How long have DAOs been around?
Dao’s been around since Bitcoin.
It seems it’s been popularized.
It depends on how you do your DAO.
What will we be talking about in 2023?
With DAO specifically or with Seker Factory?
With Seker Factory. I’m fascinated by DAOs.
How can people get involved?
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Thank you for having me.
How is it here for you?
Tell us more about Faith Tribe.
We’re building the whole supply chain.
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Important Links
About Avery Akkineni
An Ex-Googler with a passion for digital marketing; currently leading VaynerNFT, a venture created to help the world’s leading intellectual property owners navigate the wild and wonderful world of NFTs.
Previously launched VaynerMedia’s expansion into APAC via Singapore; where I grew a team from 0-150+, opened offices in Singapore, Bangkok, Tokyo, and Sydney, and was awarded 2021 Independent Agency of the Year (Gold), within 2 years.
Prior to joining Vayner, I spent six years working on DoubleClick, YouTube, and Google Search, in both Silicon Valley and New York City.
About Tammy Yang
[Background]Particle Physics PhD, strong logical thinking and good at math, machine learning and deep learning.
[Programming Skills]Advanced user of Python, LATEX, Linux shell scripting. Extensive experience with C, C++, Javascript.
[Other Tools]Docker, Git, familiarity with open-source development tools and methodology, especially those in common use for Ubuntu and Debian package maintenance, including Debian packaging tools: APT, dpkg, debhelper.
[Languages]Fluent in English and Mandarin Chinese.
About Mark Radcliffe
I work with technology companies and companies that use technology throughout the world. I have been working in Silicon Valley for over 30 years. I particularly enjoy applying the law to the issues raised by new technologies, such as blockchain, non-fungible tokens, open source software, IoT and domain names. My clients range from Fortune 500 such as Oracle Corporation and Sony Corporation to unknown startups. Currently, my team and I are working with over 45 startups.
I have worked across a wide variety of industries, including software (in particular open source software), blockchain, NFTs, semiconductor, consumer electronics, content licensing (from music to characters), and medical devices. During my career, I have advised companies and investors on over 1,000 venture capital transaction. The following are some of my projects:
Assisted TikTok on its first NFT drop in 2021 Assisted several companies on developing and implementing their NFT strategies
Drafted terms of use for several NFT platforms
Assisted a cryptocurrency exchange by reviewing over 15 tokens to determine the risk that the SEC would hold them to be securities
Assisted several startups in developing token issuance strategies to ensure compliance with US and certain foreign laws
Assisted major energy companies in structuring a joint venture to trade certain types of energy using a blockchain infrastructure
Assisted several companies in developing and implementing open source management strategies
Started the corporate venture capital practice at DLA Piper
General counsel to OSI and serve on Apache Software Foundation Legal Committee on a pro bono basis
General counsel to the OpenStack Foundation (open source cloud computing project)
Assisted the Navajo Nation in adopting a modified version of Article II of the UCC
Assisted Network Solutions in developing the first domain dispute resolution policy in 1994 (still used in current ICANN Dispute Resolution Policy)
Assisted Dr. Suess Estate in determining what words, characters and symbols to register as trademarks
Assisted major corporation in obtaining a license from a financially troubled company with a $40M prepaid royalty and ensured that the license would survive bankruptcy
Assisted large Asian company in developing IP asset management strategy for its 50,000 patents
Specialties: Developing and implementing strategies to protect and exploit intellectual property for clients; venture capital financing; blockchain; and licensing.
About Rebecca Jonah
Rebecca Jonah worked at the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Central District of California before joining the law firm of Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld, LLP to practice financial restructuring.
There, she worked on several high profile bankruptcy cases (largely representing creditors’ committees and bondholders’ committees). She has significant experience representing official creditors’ committees, secured and unsecured creditors, asset purchasers and other parties in interest in chapter 11 cases.
Rebecca also served on her firm’s hiring committee, and spearheaded the firm’s pro bono adoption program with the Alliance for Children’s Rights. In 2006, Rebecca left her law firm to work for a publicly traded company, operated initially as a venture-funded subsidiary of Delliote & Touche.
Rebecca is currently a partner in 1457 Investment Group. She is an active investor and consultant in various businesses, which include the entertainment, technology, solar and fashion industries, where she is tasked with day to day business operations, strategic planning, fundraising and investor relations.
Rebecca is also very active in a wide variety of charitable and political endeavors, and has helped to raise millions of dollars for various organizations. Rebecca served as a member of AIPAC’s Los Angeles Cabinet, as a member of the Board of Brawerman Elementary School and was on the Fundraising Committee for Determined to Succeed. She is on the Board of Governors of Aish Los Angeles and is a member of the Board of Trustees of Wilshire Boulevard Temple.
Rebecca graduated from The University of California, San Diego with a Bachelor of Science degree in Neuroscience and Animal Physiology and a minor in Law and Society. She went on to attend Loyola Law School, graduating Order of the Coif.
About Ilona Stepanyants
I’m a dynamic, creative and high impact global brand marketing leader with over 17 years of strategic, innovative, and measurable brand marketing experience with a strong focus on lifestyle, entertainment, sports and consumer marketing. Currently, I lead the brand marketing initiatives, communication, strategy and creative for the top collaborators (Beyoncé & Pharrell) at Adidas as the Global Brand Director in the Lifestyle category.
Those with whom I’ve worked and partnered with consider me an authentic, high energy, driven collaborative leader and cultural expert. As a dedicated team and people leader, I value recognizing talent while building, developing and coaching diverse teams and inspiring them to do their best work.
I believe everything starts and ends with the consumer. I thrive to delivering game-changing, integrated, digital and physical marketing initiatives that strengthen consumer connection, drive brand growth and accelerate revenue.
Key strengths include: brand marketing, strategic brand management, retail brand marketing, digital strategy, e-commerce, go to market excellence, negotiation skills, athlete and entertainment management, cross-functional partnership, consumer journey mapping, experiential marketing and storytelling.
I love meeting new people and welcome you to connect with me here.
About Wahid Chammas
With Faith Tribe and Faith Connexion, we are developing the first fully decentralized and community-owned ecosystem for the collaborative creation of fashion items, a multi-platform solution built with the latest blockchain, Web3 and NFT technologies.
Faith Tribe allows creators to design, customize, mint and distribute their own digital and physical fashion assets, with platform participants also determining through a transparent and democratic process which garments should go into physical production.
Faith Tribe brings together the global decentralized community of designers, visual artists, curators, fashion enthusiasts, influencers, brands, and buyers in an incentive-aligned way. We want to become the world’s biggest creator-first open-source platform for fashion, optimally designed for collaboration, community participation, and discovery, where creators can transact directly with their buyers and participants are rewarded native tokens for their contributions to the ecosystem.
About Nathan Ginnever
Experienced Founder with a demonstrated history of working in the “blockchain” industry. Skilled in Node.js, C++, Data Structures, Pure Mathematics, and Distributes Systems.
Strong entrepreneurship professional with a Bachelor’s Degree focused in Mathematics from Harris-Stowe State University.