Chris Jericho And David Shapiro On Creating Painmaker Graphic Novel And Growing A Community Of Metaverse Readers

Reading graphics novels is a colorful experience that throws you into a brand new world and stimulates your imagination. With NFT finding its way into this genre, exciting and immersive opportunities are rising. Jeff Kelley, Eathan Janney, and Josh Kriger chat with actor, host, and author Chris Jericho about his NFT graphic novel Painmaker. Together with his producer David Shapiro, Chris shares how he brought his pro-wrestling alter ego to the world of NFT and how it naturally grows given today’s evolving technology. They also talk about the graphic novel’s ability to offer readers the unique experience of collaboration, giving birth to an expansive and creative community.

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Listen to the podcast here

Chris Jericho And David Shapiro On Creating Painmaker Graphic Novel And Growing A Community Of Metaverse Readers

NFT curious readers, stay tuned for this episode and find out why an intergalactic former serial killer is disrupting the pages of a graphic novel near you, where you can buy a punch in the face from our guest, and why 14-pound branded bowling balls are the next big idea in swag bags. All this and more on this episode.

Don’t forget that we put a little soiree together called NFTLA that brought out thousands of the world’s most innovative doers in the NFT space. Head to NFTLA.live to get tickets to our bigger, bolder, and better but also just as an intimate and impactful event happening in Los Angeles from March 20th to 23rd, 2023. See you there.

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This episode features Chris Jericho, creator of The Painmaker Graphic Novel, and David Shapiro, Founder of Semkhor Studios, a unique creative consulting and media agency. Acclaimed actor, wrestler, musician, author, podcaster, and television personality, Chris Jericho has established himself as a multifaceted performer with tens of millions of fans worldwide. Chris’s initial two NFTs sold out quickly. He used the space as similar to the early days of MTV and YouTube. As a result, he has expanded his collaboration with Semkhor to create a graphic novel based on his original character, The Painmaker, which will also be sold as NFTs in the near future.

To give a little bit about David Shapiro, he founded Semkhor years ago to explore the intersection of art and tech. His experiences with music, Chinese medicine, and technology have fostered a holistic approach to businesses that looks to accomplish multiple objectives in the same process. Central to this method is to integrate student training and philanthropy into all Semkhor productions, including a fundraising effort for student scholarships as part of Kevin Smith‘s NFT film.

Finally, Semkhor is focused on artist-centric productions that fit within the efficient, streamlined development and production model it has developed. All projects are carefully chosen, inexpensive, and in partnership with recognized filmmakers. Their approach to development in combination with Semkhor’s talent network, gives them access to unique projects positioned well for the ever-expanding streaming media market. Chris is ready to chitchat. Welcome, David and Chris.

First of all, I feel bad that I didn’t get the Edge of NFT hat.

There’s a mint in 2021, Chris. You’re a little late to the party, but you know how it goes. FOMO is hard in our space. It’s like you missed the ticket to the wrestling match. It is what it is.

We have to do a bit of origin story here, though, because there’s so much to this and what you’re doing, Chris. Let’s talk a bit about the genesis of The Painmaker character and the journey you’ve been on to get it to where it is as an NFT.

Long story short, David produced and was very integral in Killroy Was Here, the movie that Kevin Smith released as the first ever full-length feature film NFT. I was in that movie. I had a connection with David. We started talking about doing something with an NFT. When I first heard the initials NFT, I had no idea what it was, “What does that mean?” It’s a non-fungible token. I’m not even trying to be funny. I thought it was some mushroom or fungus, “What does this even mean? Is it some a food product?”

I was put into my place. NFT is the way that art is going to be consumed in the future. I figured out very quickly exactly what we were dealing with here. That’s something too. When I’m talking to guys like yourselves and your fan base, we’re on the other side. We understand what NFTs are. We get it. We’re into it. There’s a whole community. When you’re on the other side of the wall where the White Walkers are, people think you’re insane talking about NFTs, “Come on. It’s not real. It’s not this.”

I’m thinking to myself, “This is probably the same type of people years ago when they said, ‘Here’s a DVD of my new movie.’” If I said to you all, “Years from now, DVDs will mean nothing. You can watch everything from your phone,” they would probably go, “You’re insane. You don’t know what you’re talking about. It will never happen.” Here we are. I understood the importance of what an NFT was and what it could be. I wanted to do something special within the space and get involved, not just to have Chris Jericho in the wrestling ring with flashing lights and some smoke. I want to do something different, more original, and unique and take advantage of this space and what NFT is.

I had this character that I was playing in Japan called The Painmaker. The Painmaker was to me what would a serial killer be if they were a pro-wrestler. I created this character based on that. I thought, “The Painmaker should be more than a character that appears in a match every few months or whenever I’m in Japan or wherever that might be. Maybe I could explore this character within the NFT universe and create a unique world based around this character in this new form of media.” That’s where it all started.

The beauty and the challenge of the space is its unlimited possibility. It probably took you on a creative journey.

To see how wide open it can be is a whole different realm. It’s funny for us to understand the possibilities of NFT, what it is, and how much you could do with it. We will get into everything, but in The Painmaker Graphic Novel itself, I’ve had 5 or 6 different companies say, “Let’s do a graphic novel.” We appreciate the graphic novel. I used to read the old school all the time as a kid. You can create a living and breathing graphic novel that changes. If someone shoots a gun, you can see the shot. You can see the lightning, the weather, or whatever it may be. It’s so much more vibrant and alive.

It’s such a more immersive experience to read this graphic novel. When we think about it, knowing what we know, ten years from now, people will be going, “It’s a graphic novel. Who wants to open up a book and read it? We want the whole experience.” It’s the perfect time to get involved in that aspect of it, never mind the millions of other things that we can do. That appealed to me creating. I’m sure there are other graphic novels, but I want to make this the first graphic novel that I’ve ever heard of and that I’ve ever seen involving this character that has a whole potential of what we can do here.

I’m an old-school wrestling fan. I admit it. I had a Hulkamania wrestling buddy when I was a kid. I think about wrestling and how it has evolved with the times and has continued to say relevant over many decades. I think about an analogy here, David, around the comic industry, how it’s reinventing itself and staying relevant, and how NFTs provide that opportunity. You’re very passionate about storytelling and all its different genres with what you’ve done with your production company. Can you give us a little bit of a smidge of how you got started and how this fits into your journey?

The graphic novel, along with Dungeons & Dragons, was the key inspirational energy for any creativity I express. I was lucky to have those twin things to work on and create a vision of the world for me when I was young and things were more difficult. With the graphic novel itself, no matter what happens in terms of streaming, metaverse, and interactivity, there will always be a space where someone wants to look at beautiful images that are mysterious and tell a story to engage you to figure out.

I believe that this collaboration with Chris is great because we are linking that with the metaverse interactive aspects of it. Possibly that solves a lot of problems in terms of cost. With a background in Chinese medicine first and then this, it’s very important to understand that the graphic novel provided a place where people could be free and independent. Graphic novels and comics now are, in many ways, much more corporate. The Painmaker character is this incredible character. Chris started talking about it. He’s a serial killer struggling with himself. He’s a real antihero, “Let’s take that to Marvel.” I don’t think they’re going to do it.

Let me explain another thing about Painmaker. The character is not Chris Jericho playing a character. Picking up what David said, I’ve seen enough Spider-Man, Batman, and Superman movies. I like most of them, but how many times can we go back to the same guy over and over again? Sooner or later, someone is going to have to come up with a new superhero. That’s when I started thinking about this Painmaker and what exactly he could be. It is a serial killer, but it’s an intergalactic reformed serial killer who now spends his time on a hunt for other intergalactic serial killers.

The problem is he still has an urge to kill innocent people deep down inside. Sometimes that comes out. There’s the antihero aspect of it. Within the NFT universe, The Painmaker can go into any galaxy. What’s a serial killer? Do you want to go to a planet of crazy clowns? There you go. Do you want to go to a planet of half-spiders and half-scorpions? Great. Do you want to go to a planet of talking shrubbery? Whatever we want to do, we can do it. Maybe he has to come home to Earth as well.

What happens if he falls in love and he has this urge to kill the woman he’s in love with? There’s so much we can do with this character within this world of an antihero that Marvel might never do, but who’s to say we couldn’t do a whole feature film with The Painmaker maker as well? Kevin already proved that you could do your feature film in the NFT universe. Is it so much harder to believe than it was years ago?

“Here’s my DVD of the green Martian movie.” Now, you don’t need the DVD. You go to Amazon Prime, Netflix, or Hulu and watch it. Who’s to say an NFT can’t be whatever the NFT platform could be, whoever creates one, or maybe there’s one already? You would know better than I would. Who’s to say you couldn’t go and spend that $5.99? Instead of getting it on Amazon, I’m going to get it on an NFT. It’s a new world where people are consuming entertainment. Don’t even get me started on all the other things you could do and all the other outlets, worlds, and forms that are out there.

NFT is becoming the way art will be consumed in the future. Click To Tweet

To me, it’s so obvious. It’s right here, but 75% or 80% of the world still doesn’t even want to know about it. They’re behind the curve. I have never been behind the curve since I was nineteen years old. I have no problem being ahead of the curve. It was the same way when I started my podcast, Talk is Jericho, in 2013. People still didn’t know what a podcast was, but because I started early and formed a great fan base, my podcast is top 200 in the world years later in a realm where there are over a million podcasts. That’s true. It keeps going.

Few of them make it.

I want to start a trend right on this show. No more NFT. We’re replacing this with programmable art because that is so much more in line with what you’re doing in this space. What I’m excited about is that everyone talks about the decentralized aspect of it. That is great. Most of the energy has been in grand visions, which is fine, and cryptocurrency and how much you can make, but the decentralized aspect for artist interaction is something else.

If the community develops around this, this will allow us to all work together to make that Painmaker animated series. That’s what excites me the most about it. It’s the fact that the NFT becomes, in this project, a gateway into the thing as opposed to something that you’re honing and trading. That being said, you could still do that, but I liked the idea that it’s the audience-artist interaction in a deeper way. This is what this project is all about.

We have been skirting around the whole time here and opening up all these possibilities. I was going to say laser disc, but that was my alternative. Programmable art could work or maybe the 8-track cassette.

Chris’s character is so dynamic. I don’t want to give away too much of it or the first story, but this first world that he’s dealing with is quite a world where a mixture of occult and quantum energy got together and created quite a mess.

How do you see all of this stuff playing out in the metaverse, other graphic novels, or your graphic novels and bringing all these things into the game? What stimulates your imagination in the coming months and years in terms of what could be done with the graphic novel?

Video games are sophisticated, but does anyone remember going to get those video games either for your kids or yourself? It’s slow. You’re going through a haunted mansion, looking for Easter eggs and unlocking them. It’s slower. There are more of those on the app. These older games were immersive, too, in their way. I see this graphic novel allowing all kinds of unlocking or finding additional content. I hope this gets people involved. It also gives people the opportunity to communicate with Chris.

Maybe they have an incredible idea or another world they should go to. We’re figuring out all these contours of it. I also know that we’re not starting with this grand thing where there has to be a fully realized technologically perfect Sony-level metaverse to have this deep enjoyment. Dungeons & Dragons, which I played heavily, was a piece of graph paper and imagination.

Here’s the thing that I liked about starting The Painmaker in the first two releases that we did. When I was presented with the idea of an NFT, what exactly could we do? I saw a lot of cool ones, but I didn’t see anything that was going the extra mile here. It’s anything that you do. I don’t care if you want to charge people $1 or $1,000. It has to be great. If I’m putting my name on it, it has to be unique and great. If someone doesn’t want to buy it, that’s fine. I don’t have a problem with that. If someone does, I need to know that I gave it my all and that it’s something that I’m proud of selling.

We came up with the idea of doing a 15 to 20-second animated short cartoon on The Painmaker maker. He’s standing there. There’s music. The spikes come out of the jacket. There’s a fire in the eyes. That was cool. It sold out very quickly, “Let’s do a second one.” What can we do? I started thinking, “Why don’t we try and do something for the second one that links to the first one?” Even though we never had this plan of how 1 will link to 2, you can easily do that.

Let’s say that when The Painmaker is faced with some danger, that’s when the spikes come out, the fire starts, and all that thing. We came up with Aractimonos, which was the intergalactic serial killer that was half-scorpion and half-spider. You see him. If he’s a skunk, he would have sprayed his smell or whatever type of animal that would see something and get involved. I was like, “We’ve got something.” That’s where the idea came from. It was almost like going with the flow.

Something I always say in wrestling and do constantly is let the story lead you. You don’t try and lead the story because then you’re trying to put square pegs into round holes. The story of this was like, “People are interested in the first one. Let’s create something that is an extension of the first one. We have a little bit of a world.” What’s the third extension? Let’s create a whole cartoon or a whole graphic novel with a living and breathing story that continues what we started in this almost teaser trailer.

We have a whole first episode or installment. That, to me, was organic. That’s always where you get the most success, especially in learning from the programmable art universe and all of this community that we have. Kudos to David. We can almost lead the charge in whatever it is that I’m doing. There are people that are so into this and understand every little way, shape, and form, but I’m leading a lot of people into this world as I do with podcasting or whatever it may be.

I also see that you’re leading with pain on your Instagram. There’s a picture of your foot with a toenail ripped off. He’s beaten up. He’s got a bandage on his head. There’s a pain theme in your life that’s transposing to this character.

It’s not going to be in the cartoon or the graphic novel. This is The Painmaker. It’s a completely different guy. It originally was an extension of me. There are people that have done this amazing artwork on The Painmaker from the few matches I had at the Tokyo Dome in Japan. There was something interesting about it. I remember the 3rd or 4th time I did it. There was a makeup artist there. The first time I did it was in the States. She was like, “Do you want me to paint these lines right?” I’m like, “The idea is supposed to be gnarly. He’s a killer. Paint some shit on his face. That’s it.”

That’s his warping. If it was like a Kiss Paul Stanley perfectly formed star, it’s not the same thing. There is a little bit of weirdness to this character because deep down inside, he’s a killer. I played Dungeons & Dragons too. This is like a Dungeons & Dragons character coming to life. It’s not you, but it’s your ideas and your thoughts, “What would it be if I was this guy?” I love the fact that we can take that to this universe and people that still don’t quite get it.

My very first trading card was from Mexico. I was called Corazón de León back then. I was wrestling only in Mexico. It’s Lionheart in Spanish. It’s a Topps trading card from Mexico from 1993. Google it. It’s the most expensive wrestling card in the world. People are trying to sell it for $500,000. Here’s my point. I have one of those cards. I don’t know where the hell it is. I can’t find it anywhere. I’ve looked through the storage. On the day I die, I’ll probably grab a book from a shelf and fall dead, and the fucking thing will come out of the book somehow.

My point is if I bought that now as programmable art or an NFT, I would never lose it ever. I would always know exactly where it was and know what I could do with it. That’s another thing about NFTs. You don’t have to worry about losing your Wayne Gretzky rookie card that was in mint condition, which is another thing I lost. I know it’s here somewhere.

I love the modern way of doing things where we can buy a Painmaker Graphic Novel. You can have it and you will never have to worry about getting dog ears or someone spilling a coffee on it or losing it. That’s another thing about NFTs that people don’t quite grasp. You will never lose this. It’s always there. That’s something very important when you think about some of these older ways of looking at and consuming art. You can lose it and have it burned easily.

Graphic Novel: Instead of spending money on content from Amazon, get it on NFT. It’s the new world where people are now consuming entertainment.

To the point of Chris leading a bunch of new people here, this is true. When we did his first two drops, they both sold out very quickly, but we allowed people to pay by credit card or PayPal. It’s not so new now. Through this method, by integrating into normal eCommerce flows, we intend to bring this to its natural audience base too and to people who are not involved with crypto and teach them that way.

Yeah.

David, how about you?

Yeah. It’s ten records for $0.01.

David, how about you?

What model did you get?

David, how about you?

Is the tone of that green or blue?

It’s ocean teal.

It’s got sparkles and a logo.

David, what’s your most prized possession?

We’ve got to buy this guy some FOMO.

Persistence.

Get after it. Chris, how about you?

I’ll throw a bowling ball at you.

I wouldn’t bet against you.

Persistence.

We will go with that. Chris. How about you?

How about you, Chris?

There’s no job too big or too small.

I’m going to get a glass of sangria.

That sounds nice and refreshing.

Let’s go. It’s Mexican. I’m ready. Let’s go.

I like it.

Let’s do it. I’m the worst for it, but I’m down.

That would be a beautiful thing to do.

Do you have any socials for him?

@ScribblePunk is what he goes by on Instagram.

Thank you.

Thanks for having us.

Important Links

• NFTLA.live

• The Painmaker Graphic Novel

• Semkhor Studios

• Kevin Smith – Previous episode

• Talk is Jericho

• Instagram – Chris Jericho

• Facebook – Chris Jericho

• @ScribblePunk – Instagram

• Spotify – Edge of NFT

• iTunes – Edge of NFT